Talk About Blyton!

Unlisted - Enid Blyton in general – Hormones and Blyton's Books

September 4, 2009 – EnidFan says: I found this in Wikipedia: "The seemingly perpetual youth of the Famous Five who experience a world of seemingly endless summers while not ageing significantly has been highlighted by a number of contemporary children's fiction authors as an influence upon their own work. J. K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series of books has been quoted as saying of the titular character: "in book four the hormones are going to kick in - I don't want him stuck in a state of permanent pre-pubescence like poor Julian in the Famous Five!" My question is: did you care that EB didn't show her characters falling in love or would you have preferred it if she did?
September 4, 2009 – rogoz says: Three thoughts : Blyton only set out to write 6 Famous Five books so the formula wasn't changed later on [ although Anne grows up more than most ] and, it's doubtful Blyton was capable of writing for teens above age 12 or, possibly, saw the market as too tough. After Blyton, readers could switch to Mills and Boon [ est. 1908 ] for teen romance.
September 4, 2009 – Anonymous says: I would've preferred them falling in love and starting puberty, because without it they just don't seem human. Even in the other series, no-one's ever mentioned a crush or maybe a period or something like that - it's actually a little annoying. But I supppose such things are missed because her books are aimed at children below 12 years who probably believe such things aren't important.
September 5, 2009 – EnidFan says: When I was less than 10 reading these books I would probably have gone eeewww at thought of anyone falling in love, but as I grew up, I would have preferred the characters growing with me. Also, I don't think M and B type romances are for everyone. I personally find them cloying and boring. I like the way Rowling dealt with it - with large doses of humour. What do other people think?
September 6, 2009 – rogoz says: The difference between teen and pre-teen writing is pretty vast and had Blyton gone on to the teen romance market, she would have followed her pattern of simply creating new characters and storylines for a different age group. The fickle nature of reader taste means she would have been crazy to change a successful series like the Famous Five. Authors don't know in advance which books will be winners and I suppose we all know J. K. R was rejected by 12 publishers - so they don't know much either.
September 7, 2009 – Alicia says: Mills and Boons is quite annoying and a poor replacement for Enid Blyton books. I find the romance in it - as EnidFan put it - cloying.
September 7, 2009 – Nigel Rowe says: Heaven be praised that Enid never went down this road. Just imagine soppy romantic drivel being churned out at the rate of knots. Lets stick with adventures, mysteries, villains and massive high-teas!
Fatty says... Fatty says: There's a lot of talk about food here at the moment - I'm feeling ravenous. Bets, I'm off to the Dairy!
September 8, 2009 – Alicia says: Nigel, I don't see exactly how Anne saying "Oh, isn't that boy simply dashing!" be considered "soppy romantic drivel being churned out at the rate of knots". It couldn't hurt.
Fatty says... Fatty says: Oh, I don't know, I think I'm with Nigel on this one. If you want romance, you can always read Barbara Cartland! ;-)
September 8, 2009 – EnidFan says: Well, Barbara Cartland *is* drivel! :-) and that is not what many/most people want. I think the point Alicia is making is similar to "anonymous" - that some evidence of hormonal changes would be "normal" and makes them appear more human. Would you consider Harry Potter in the same league as Barbara Cartland? I don't. And yet Rowling writes about hormonal changes in the adolescents in her books.
September 9, 2009 – Alicia says: EnidFan, I think that would be because Anonymous and I am the SAME person [Yes, I'm stupid enough to not fill in my name=]. But Barbara Cartland? I have to agree with Enidfan on this one.
September 9, 2009 – rogoz says: Blyton doesn't use terms like ' hormonal changes ' in the 1940s but she makes clear Julian and Dick have become much bigger / stronger and that Anne can be quite a feisty handful - a Captain of Games no less. If that's too subtle for you, then it's off to Mills and Boo-oo-on!
September 9, 2009 – Alicia says: What about George then rogoz? And it's not just the FF, what about the Mystery series? Apparently Fatty's the only one with hormonal changes - subtle ones at that too. Or Malory Towers and St. clare's?
September 9, 2009 – rogoz says: In the last book, Georgina must have had her share of Weeties as she pushed two villains off a cliff in a badly worked plot. I only ever looked at the Famous Five and won't comment on her other stuff except to say it's spurious to criticize Blyton for what she didn't write. Wanna-be authors lost no time carrying on where she left off, as the blogs here will tell you.
September 11, 2009 – Enidfan says: Rogoz, two things: Most well known authors come under critical scrutiny for what they wrote as well as what they omitted (look at any foreward/intro to a classic and you will see what I mean). It is not meant to be insulting. In fact it shows the calibre of the writer that the readers are able to engage with and think about what has been written. Two, your example of blogs and sequels is ill-chosen. So many people in these forums seem to want to speculate on who each character in the different series ended up with - there is a whole thread devoted to the sexual orientation of George Kirrin for heaven's sake. I think Blyton over-estimated the naïvete and innocence of her readers.
September 12, 2009 – rogoz says: Critics mostly condemned Blyton because she fell outside their rulebook of narrative fiction. That's their first mistake - they think they wrote the rules! Oh dear! Meanwhile, Blyton made an astute commercial case for presenting simple stories without the realistic complications and I'm sure she wouldn't give a hoot that it's still not called Literature [ in literary circles ] Secondly, I applaud the bloggers for extending the Famous Five in Fanciful Frolics - I await Georgina getting a motorcycle on her 18th birthday, and sidecar for the dog, but no one's thought of it yet. Are they not slow? This site of course only covers a tiny subset of post-Blyton; there are films, musicals, satires, games, whole novels by Claude Voilier - Golly! I only scratched the surface!
September 12, 2009 – Felicity says: I cannot think that the non-aging children are worth more than a passing amused comment. Most healthy people don't feel as though we age much, we are always about 18 on the inside. The same time-line problems applies to TV series, especially those where the actors age, but the supposedly immortal characters don't! It has often seemed to me that new "partners" alter friendships adversely, perhaps the FF and the FFandD, etc, are the luckiest of us all. And if I want realism, I'll watch the news! I want secret passages, and waterfalls and comfy caves - and good morals and honour and all that "old-fashioned" stuff!
February 22, 2015 – Evie M says: Let's just put it like this: would you rather read about children solving mysteries and having adventures, or adults? I think I'd choose to read about children. And as for romance, EB books are good enough with that soppy rubbish.
February 6, 2018 – Paul says: Blyton's teenagers are often criticized by the media for seemingly never reaching puberty - JK Rowling also remarked about this with regard to Julian Kirrin - but I doubt Enid's target audience wanted to be reminded of that first bra or (if male) facial hair.
Daisy says... Daisy says: It's all about reading a good book such matters don't come into it as far as I'm concerned. I just want to read a good story!!
February 9, 2018 – Nigel says: I don't know about bras or beards, but I enjoy the developing friendship and romance between David and Petronella (Peter) in Malcolm Saville's 'Lone Pine Club' adventures. Unlike the Kirrins, they weren't all related, so such developments were possible. The time line was absurd really, as they all aged but more or less in the same time era. Not that that mattered to the reader.
July 29, 2020 – S-Dog says: I think there are sometimes subtle hints that the characters have aged a bit, (one example would be where Fatty tells Bets he won't be able to swing her round much longer) but Blyton does not emphasise these changes, as the main focus is the adventure/mystery. On the romance side of things: do Fatty and Bets show affection for each other? Yes, but they always have done - even in the first book when they were young, and 'affection' can have various meanings. (However, I see no reason why Fatty and Bets wouldn't have got married - there's more I could say on it probably, but that topic belongs to a different discussion!). Maybe Blyton wanted to make a point that people can still be kids even when they get older? Maybe that's just taking the subject too far? It depends how literal you want to take the ages. If you're literal, then the main characters will probably be in their late teens by the end of the series - I guess the story still works fine even if they are. On the other hand, you can just ignore the ages and imagine them as early teens or younger thoroughout the series. I suppose it's up to you how you want to imagine them, either way the storylines are still great!
Buster says... Buster says: I good posting, S-Dog. I don't think Enid wanted them to age, it was more about the mysteries they solved.
July 31, 2020 – Arka says: Hey S. Dog, I totally disagree with you. Enid Blyton never meant a silly romance or anything like this. And as for Fatty and Bets, well, they were only good friends. And if you want to see it like this, then you should also keep in mind about things that clearly poofs that Fatty cannot marry Bets. 1) He was 5 years older than Bets and it is a very large age difference. 2) It was Fatty's nature. If you will go through The Find - Outer books again, then you will find that it is in Fatty's nature with girls that he always praised them (at least, to them he liked). 3) He praised Bets the most (because she was the youngest of all The Five Find - Outers). Many people take this point to prove that Fatty and Bets were in love, and I will take this point too but to prove that they weren't. Fatty praised Bets the most even though others did their job better than her. The reason he did that because he was afraid that Bets might start thinking that she was the most useless member and would not do her jobs properly. Now, a question arises. Why would she start thinking this? There are 2 reasons. 1) She was the youngest and thought she was of no use in a group in which much older children than her. 2) She was always ticked off by her brother, Pip. This is one of the main reasons why Fatty always stuck up for her. She can think that if even her brother did not like her being in the group, then the others will most definately think that she is useless too. And if Fatty was really in love with her, then why didn't he ever scold or at least, ask Pip not to? This is because he wasn't in love with her and so, only stuck up for her. Now, I shall come to the main answer of the question. Well, although I am a die-hard fan of both Enid Blyton and J. K. Rowling, I must say that Enid's books are more reasonable than J. K. R. I am saying this because J. K. 's books neither make us more tolerant nor open minded. I mean, Enid Blyton books teach us so many things but J. K. 's books almost nothing (mind you, by saying this, I am not saying that J. K. 's books are rubbish. I only mean to say that her books are for entertainment purpose, nothing else). Yeah! I agree that in Enid books, children never seem to grow whereas in J. K. Rowling books, this does not happen. But, I think Enid did this because she wanted the children should be mature, but never become a grown - up. I hope that gives us all the answers. But before going, can anyone please tell me how people say things from Enid's characters (like Buster, Fatty, Bets,Daisy etc. )? Please comment and tell your opinion. Thank You.
Buster says... Buster says: Daisy, Bets, Fatty and Buster are admin, and have to approve these postings before we put them up for all to read. Having said that, there are only two of us who admin this message board, and we choose which character we want to speak that day. Today I'm choosing Buster. Maybe tomorrow I will be Daisy!
August 1, 2020 – Arka says: Oh Buster, I am sorry for I said you were not as good and intelligent like Timmy in The Top Three characters. But, I said your master is good and intelligent and I think you wouldn't mind. And, please ask Fatty to tell me from where will I learn ventriloquism the best or please ask him to teach himself. I never said your master is bossy or anything like that. So please ask him to. Also, I want to ask Larry and Fatty if it is true that Larry is jealous of Fatty (Now, now. Larry, people say this, not me. ) So would you, please? Thank You.
Fatty says... Fatty says: I did need my edges smoothing off when I first came to Peterswood. Larry was a tad jealous of me, but we soon became firm friends. Buster was far more intelligent that Timmy ever was! Incidentally, as has been mentioned on another thread, you can read about us in older age in our Fan Fiction section - The Find-Outers in Retirement, by Julie Heginbotham.
August 1, 2020 – Nigel says: Arka, it is fine to disagree with S-Dog, but no need to jump down his throat! We are all entitled to our opinions. I find S-Dog's posts very interesting and thought-provoking. Can you tell me why Bets being 5 years younger that Fatty prevents them getting married later? I know of married couples having a much bigger age-gap than 5 years! Fatty and Bets had a very special relationship which he didn't have with any other character. I am not suggesting they were "in love" at the ages they were in the stories, but who knows how their relation developed in later years? Julie Heginbotham has written about this in the fan fiction section of this website. I also wonder why so many people try to compare Enid Blyton with J K Rowling. The only thing in common is that both feature school children. Would you compare Agatha Christie with Charles Dickens? The reason why the timeline of many of Enid's children's series isn't a reality is that how could say, The Famous Five, have 21 adventures in 4 or 5 years! They did age, but very slowly!
Fatty says... Fatty says: Food for thought! Only I know if Bets and I really got married!
August 1, 2020 – S-Dog says: Thanks Nigel, I appreciate that. I do agree with Arka that romance in Enid's books wouldn't have seemed right, especially as they were foremostly aimed at pre-teens. However, as Nigel said, I don't see any plausible reason why Fatty and Bets couldn't have got married when they were a bit older. Firstly, Bets was actually less that four years younger than Fatty, (in the secret room, Bets has turned nine, then Fatty turns thirteen a bit later. ) On the subject of Fatty showing favour to all girls; I believe he was only extra nice towards Hillary so that he would get a chance to look round her house for clues. I don't believe he particularly praised Daisy more than Pip or Larry. He did show kindness for example to Marion and Gladys, but that was because they were very upset at the time, and the others were kind to them as well anyway. And as for Eunice, well Fatty spent most of the book trying to get away from her! There were times when Fatty told Pip off for being mean to Bets, for example in the Strange Bundle, after Goon stuffs the wet clothes down Fatty's neck and Bets is crying, Pip tells her she's a crybaby and she should shut up and not make a fool of herself; Fatty replies with "Let her alone, Pip, she's really scared". There is another occasion when Pip calls Bets a dunce for not knowing the meaning of recap, Fatty then asks Pip the meaning; Pip doesn't know, so Fatty promptly calls Pip a dunce and explains the meaning of recap to Bets. I think it is true that Fatty does often try and encourage Bets because she is the youngest, and because Pip teases her a lot; but then again, Larry and Daisy could have encouraged her for the same reasons, but compared to Fatty they hardly do. Also, Fatty bought her an expensive doll for Christmas, after she was upset that she didn't get one; and she is always the most concerned about Fatty when he does something dangerous. So I don't think it can be denied that Fatty and Bets have a very special friendship, but I am glad that Enid didn't turn it into an obvious romance story in the books. I hope everyone understands what I was trying to say, and of course, you are all entitled to your own opinions.
Buster says... Buster says: You put forward your postings very well, S-Dog. Fatty always encouraged Bets in the books, as she was the youngest, and didn't like to give her the impression she was being left out.
August 2, 2020 – Arka says: Well, Nigel I can't force S. Dog to agree with me! I was only telling my opinion and I can prove it as I have written "Hey S. Dog, I disagree with you" and not "Hey S. Dog, you are wrong" or anything like that (but then also, if it sounded like offensive, then I apologise, though I didn't mean to). Everyone has a different opinion and they are correct in their side. I also know that S. Dog is correct in his point of view but I replied him by answering this question because he said in his answer "I can't see why Bets and Fatty will not marry", which is wrong. I mean, he is wrong because in the series, some things proofs that they might marry later in their lives whereas some things proofs that they will not. That's why, I written the answer to remind him that he should say his opinion only after seeing all the possibilities. As for me, well, I found that they cannot or will not marry and you all are free to disagree with me. Apart from replying and reminding, I agree with Nigel that people should not compare J. K. Rowling with Enid Blyton as both authors' genre is quite different for both children and adult. Now, I know that we can compare some authors with other authors (like, J. K. Rowling with Rick Riordarn) but most cannot (or at least should not. Some people compare Agatha Christie with Enid Blyton which is quite a silly comparison). But I must say that this Fatty (who answered me) was fake. I can say this as in the topic 'Bets and Fatty - Wedding Bells? ', once he says that he would love to marry her wheras once said supported that he will not. Please someone ask the real Fatty to answer me. Thank You.
Fatty says... Fatty says: I think you are in danger of confusing fiction with reality. I can also assure you that I am genuine and not a fake.
August 2, 2020 – Arka says: Well S. Dog, as I said, you are correct in your own point of view. But in my point of view, I don't see that they will marry. And as for the proof that Julie wrote them in her books, well, it is also her point of view (Now,now, Nigel, I have read all Julie's 16 stories and liked it but I didn't like the idea of Bets marrying Fatty (this is my opinion). And S. Dog, I don't really think that Enid Blyton would like romances in her story (as you have said), so I think she didn't wanted wedding between Fatty and Bets. I hope that settles everything. Thank You.
Fatty says... Fatty says: As we know nothing of what Miss Blyton intended for the future, if indeed anything at all, we can only imagine.
August 11, 2020 – June Johns says: Exactly. Enid Blyton books are not The Benny Hill Show (ask your grandparents if you don't know who Benny Hill was).
August 11, 2020 – Arka says: June John, please tell us what you mean and whom did you agree with (because my grandfather has read so much that he has almost forgot which author is good or better). Also, I think today is Enid's birthday. But the surprising thing is that there is no news about it. Anyway, the author of adventure will never die as her books are far more better than legendary.
Daisy says... Daisy says: Today 11th August is indeed Enid's birthday. Happy Birthday Enid.
August 11, 2020 – Arka says: Oh! Junes, you don't need to trouble yourself to tell me. I just read about Benny Hill Show. And yes, I agree with you. Also, don't forget to wish Enid Blyton or the Author of Adventure, her birthday. Thank You.
August 12, 2020 – June Johns says: Speaking of weddings, I understand that some are trying to replace "flower girl" and "page boy" with "flower children". All I can do is sigh and feel old.
September 15, 2020 – Arka says: Well S. Dog, in your answer, you said this: I think it is true that Fatty does often try and encourage Bets because she is the youngest, and because Pip teases her a lot; but then again, Larry and Daisy could have encouraged her for the same reasons, but compared to Fatty they hardly do. There are two reasons why Larry and Daisy hardly encourage Bets compared to Fatty . 1) Bets liked Fatty the most in the Find - Outers society and the praises by Fatty would have given more value ro Bets than praises given by Larry and Daisy. 2) Praises and encouragements by one person is enough than praises given by three persons. The amount of encouragement given by Fatty was enough for Bets. Also, no one had any problem or jealousy (except Pip in The Mystery of the Spiteful Letters) about Fatty giving so much praise to Bets, as they were old enough to understand this. Now, I will come to the question Enid Fan asked. Well, I would have preferred what she did and that is, she showed no romance or silly things in her books (for a child book, it is silly). I would prefer not growing up than romance.
February 13, 2021 – Arka says: DISCLAIMER- THIS ANSWER MIGHT MAKE POTTERHEADS ANGRY. SO, READ THE POST ON YOUR OWN RISK. Let's begin now. First of all, J. K. R. Has no right to say this: "I don't want him stuck in a state of permanent pre-pubescence like poor Julian in the Famous Five! ". You ask for a 'reason'? Well, this happened in J. K. R. 's Harry Potter too! Yeah, many would ask, 'How? ' and many would simply say 'NO! '. But, it is true. Those who read the Harry Potter series, I wanted to ask - what's the age of Albus Dumbledore, eh? Yes, even Ron pointed out (in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince) that his age might be AROUND 150 YEARS! No, don't think this is the only example I only have! Mad Eye, Grindelwald and McGonagall are also on the list. Oh, so many people living above 100 years in J. K. R. 's world is fine, but the same thing is wrong in Blyton Universe? That doesn't make sense! And, please don't think I am giving my judgment on the basis of films. I have read all Potter books too, and I am saying these with my knowledge from these books. Am I saying that J. K. R. Is wrong at making her character's age above 100 years? No! I am saying that she shouldn't say this, when this happens in her own books (which is frequent in children's fiction novels). Thank You.

Add a response to this topic

  • Avoid simple comments like "Yes, I agree!" unless you add something else as well.
  • Please check for grammar, punctuation and capitalisation or your post may be rejected!
  • New rule: No childish bickering allowed! Mature, adult discussion only please.

Your Name
Your Email
Comments
(no HTML, just simple text in one paragraph)
SpamCheck: To prove you're human, please correctly answer the following:
7 + 7 =